Thursday, October 17, 2013

Refuting Atheist Dan Barker Quote about Love

Lets refute atheist Dan Barker's quote about love, what he said about love is a lie and his claims against Christianity are false, his quote,


  1. I do understand what love is, and that is one of the reasons I can never again be a Christian. Love is not self denial. Love is not blood and suffering. Love is not murdering your son to appease your own vanity. Love is not hatred or wrath, consigning billions of people to eternal torture because they have offended your ego or disobeyed your rules. Love is not obedience, conformity, or submission. It is a counterfeit love that iscontingent upon authority, punishment, or reward. True love is respect and amiration, compassion and kindness, freely given by a healthy, unafraid human being. [Dan Barker, Losing Faith in Faith]"
"Love is not self denial."

It can be, especially when you want to Harm others, you need to deny Harming others, it is Self Denial when you tend to harm, 

however anything such as Self-Pleasure, Happiness and etc that do not harm others, those have nothing to do with Self denial, as Christianity NEVER asks you to deny that,

 in fact The Bible says that Laws such as Do Not taste, Do Not Touch, Do Not Handle, Self Punishment, Self Denial, and Harsh treatment of the Body are of The World, of Secular Society, they are not of God.

Colossians 2:20-23 - "20 If you have died with Christ [x]to the elementary principles of the world, why, as if you were living in the world, do you submit yourself to decrees, such as, 21 “Do not handle, do not taste, do not touch!” 22 (which all refer to things destined to perish [y]with use)—in accordance with thecommandments and teachings of men? 23 These are matters which have, to be sure, the [z]appearance of wisdom in [aa]self-made religion and self-abasement and severe treatment of the body, but are of no value against fleshly indulgence."

"Love is not murdering your son to appease your own vanity."

Which is absolutely Nowhere in the Bible, Penal Substitution is Unbiblical, 

" Love is not hatred or wrath"

Exactly, which is what YHWH Does not do, for He even loves His enemies, 

Matthew 5:42-48 - "You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’ 44 But I say to you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, 45 so that you may [a]be sons of your Father who is in heaven; for He causes His sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous. 46 For if you love those who love you, what reward do you have? Do not even the tax collectors do the same? 47 If you greet only your brothers, what more are you doing than others? Do not even the Gentiles do the same? 48 Therefore [b]you are to be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect."

" consigning billions of people to eternal torture"

Eternal Torment is Unbiblical and Nowhere found in The Bible, Punishment for sin is Death, Eternal Fire -= Annihilation, Jude 1:7, which involved No Pain(As Stoning in Jewish times was contructed to be painless, once again proving that Justice isn't Retributive but Restorative in Bible)

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" because they have offended your ego "

No, because they Harmed, as that is what sin Is,

 nowhere does it say you die for your sins because you offended an Ego, God has no Ego, He knows who He is, His Glory matters because it Saves others, if you lie about Him and accuse Him of evil things, damaging how He is viewed, how can anyone come to Him for Eternal Life?

By falsely accusing Him you harm alot of people Dan Barker, as you deceive them into thinking of Him as evil, when He is not, preventing them from wanting Him, Life.

 and you certainly lied when you claimed to understand love.

YHWH is the Most Humble, who Humbled Himself so much so that He died for everyone on the class, so that they Change and Stop Sinning.

Sin is harm, it isn't some arbitrary secular ego-filled society controlling rule based on emotion, it's Do not harm, plain and simple, it's based on... YHWH's Love for us, He doesn't want us, Free Willed beings, to harm each other or hate life, He wants us to choose life and choose peace and love.

" disobeyed your rules."

Rules which are all summed up in this, 

Matthew 7:12 - ""In everything, therefore, treat people the same way you want them to treat you, for this IS the Law and the Prophets."

basically Do Not Harm and love others, nothing more, nothing less.

" Love is not obedience, conformity, or submission."

Of course it is, in order to Love you have to submit to Laws such as Not Driving Under the Influence, such as Do not Murder, all these are designed to Prevent Harm, you have to be obedient, conform and submit to Not Harming others, failing to do so... is not Love, it is Evil.

See? obeying, conforming and submitting isn't always wrong, you have to obey not harming in order to love, you need to obey not being a slave, to be Free, Galatians 5

As a matter of fact if we did not conform to laws such as, Do not murder, Do not commit adultery, then we do not love, and that makes your sentence absurd, Love absolutely requires submission, and the submission is not burden(1 John 5:3), it's so simple, Do Not Harm another, Love one another.

"It is a counterfeit love that is contingent upon authority, punishment, or reward."

All of which The Bible is against,

Against being upon Compulsion,

2 Corinthians 9:7 - "Each one must do just as he has purposed in his heart, not grudgingly or under compulsion, for God loves a cheerful giver"

1 Peter 5:2 - "shepherd the flock of God among you, exercising oversight not under compulsion, but voluntarily, according to the will of God; and not for sordid gain, but with eagerness".

Against being upon Punishment,

1 John 4:18 - "There is no fear in love; but perfect love casts out fear, because fear [a]involves punishment, and the one who fears is not perfected in love."

Upon even Reward oriented rather than Love

"But love your enemies, and do good, and lend, expecting nothing in return ; and your reward will be great, and you will be sons of the Most High ; for He Himself is kind to ungrateful and evil men."

Giving instead on Genuineness.

" True love is respect and admiration, compassion and kindness, freely given by a healthy, unafraid human being. "

Which is what The Bible teaches, All summed up in Matthew 7:12:

"In everything, therefore, treat people the same way you want them to treat you, for this IS the Law and the Prophets." - YHWH(The Father and The Son and The Holy Spirit)

Matthew 22:34-40 "But when the Pharisees heard that Jesus had silenced the Sadducees, they gathered themselves together. 35 One of them, [a]a lawyer, asked Him a question, testing Him, 36 “Teacher, which is the great commandment in the Law?” 37 And He said to him, “‘You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind.’ 38 This is the great and [b]foremost commandment.39 The second is like it, ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ 40 On these two commandments depend the whole Law and the Prophets.”

I'll tell you what's not Love Dan Barker, Lying is not Love, now whether you deliberately lied or not, you gave out lies, which can take people away from truth, accusing Bible of not being about Love, when clearly The Law is to Love, Matthew 7:12.

Dan Barker is a fraud and attempted to use The Bible Own Doctrine of Love against The Bible, and the attempt failed as no lie can be hidden with YHWH(The Father and The Son and The Holy Spirit)

As I think there's no way I can see how Love can exists without YHWH(The Father and The Son and The Holy Spirit), as without Him, Morals would not be Objective. 

Love requires Objective Morality, as if Morality were Subjective, then love would be as well... however Love is unchanging.

Galatians 5:22-23 "22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness,23 gentleness, self-control; against such things there is No Law(Matthew 7:12)."

YHWH(The Father and The Son and The Holy Spirit) is indeed Love(1 John 4:8), only He can give such a perfect Law like Matthew 7:12.

Romans 13:8-10 - "Owe nothing to anyone except to love one another; for he who loves [a]his neighbor has fulfilled the law. For this, “You shall not commit adultery, You shall not murder, You shall not steal, You shall not covet,” and if there is any other commandment, it is summed up in this saying, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.” 10 Love [b]does no wrong to a neighbor; therefore love is the fulfillment of the law."

1 comment:

  1. How would you respond to the claims that the bible "promotes slavery" and christianity is the "white man's religion"?